Zuby: Hustle & Grind

Have you ever had a conversation that sticks with you and changes how you think about your life? I interviewed the self-made British rapper, weightlifter, and political troublemaker Zuby over a year ago to promote my first book, Clueless at The Work. Every few days, I mull over what Zuby shared in that discussion. He is one of the most inspiring and hard-working musicians I've ever met. He's been hustling and grinding since 2006 and has exploded on every online network. He'll be doing his second Joe Rogan episode later this year, he's coming up on half a million Twitter followers, and his most recent viral tweet has reached over five million people.

Zuby is one of the people who've inspired me to quit my full-time day job and go into business for myself. He's helped me to see the potential of Make Weird Music if I just keep producing content people want to consume. He's increased my desire to take better care of my body and my mind. He's young, smart, tech-savvy, and perfectly comfortable getting under people's skin. While his music isn't "weird," his attitude is. He is unafraid and expresses his creativity without apology. That certainly makes him unusual, whether you agree with him or not. In the words of Bill Nye, everyone in the world knows something you don't, and he has taught me plenty about unbridled artistic expression. 

Anthony: Today’s guest is Zuby. He is a rapper from England who grew up in Saudi Arabia, and he lives in England again. He has a book called Strong Advice: Zuby’s Guide to Fitness for Everyone. And the main reason I wanted to talk to him is he is a troublemaker.

Zuby: Me?

Anthony: Yeah, you. [Laughter] So thanks for joining us today. I met him in New York City when I was just randomly on a trip there with my wife. She was going on the Dr. Oz show, and Zuby was having a meet up. So that was pretty cool to hang out.

[00:01:05] Zuby: Yeah, that was a good night, man. I I enjoyed that. I was amazed by how many people showed up to be honest, man, because it was a pretty last-minute thing. Ah, but that was one of the coolest things, actually, about my US trip was just being able to host meetups in different city. It was late notice and to just have a whole bunch of cool people show up and everyone was really cool. Everybody got along with everybody, had some great conversations, good food, everything like that. So yeah, it’s an unorthodox thing to do, but I’m very glad that I did it.

[00:01:35] Anthony: So a couple things I wanted to definitely cover today: The idea of promoting your work and bringing attention to what you do. I have a book called Clueless at the Work, and it’s largely about people who are getting started in things, and they think they have more wisdom than they actually do. And you can end up in that position for 10, 20, 30 years. You can end up in a position where you’re a senior something-or-other and you’re still pretty clueless. But the difference between an experienced person you can trust, and an experienced person you can’t is one knows when they’re clueless and the other doesn’t.

[00:02:15] Zuby: I like that. That that sounds pretty pretty accurate in terms of what I have noticed myself.

[00:02:20] Anthony: So you started out as a rapper, and now you have in the past year exploded on Twitter. So can you talk a little bit about your history and talk about how you’ve made your work visible to other people?

[00:02:34] Zuby: Yeah, sure thing. So, I was born in the UK. I grew up in Saudi Arabia, went to boarding school in the UK from the age of 11. I did really well in school, and then I got a new offer from Oxford University. So I went to Oxford to study science. Sorry, computer science.

When I was in my first year there as an undergrad, I just started rapping as a hobby. It was something I just started initially out of boredom and out of my love of hip hop, as a fan of hip hop. Since I was about 11 or 12 and I just started rapping and I picked it up fairly quickly.

One of my friends, Chris, who lived on the same floor as me, he had a basic recording studio in his dorm room. So I used to just go in there and freestyle and rap and get beats off of the Internet. And I used to just record some tracks. And I made my very first song, which was called The Bad Man. I made that in about three months.

So when I first started rapping and I just emailed it out to my friends, played it to people and, you know, people were like, “Yo, this this is good. You got some talent there. Keep keep going.” So, I made a couple more songs and then fast forward less than one year, I released my very first independent album, which was called Commercial Underground.

It was just a short album. Seven track album, more like an EP. I actually sold over 3000 copies of that album.

Anthony: Wow, that’s amazing.

Zuby: Thank you very much. Thank you. So I used to just go around the city and I go to Corn Market Street in Oxford, which is the main pedestrianized High Street, and I used to just go there with my headphones and play my tracks to people, tell them who I was, introduced myself, and people would buy my CDs. After doing that in Oxford for a while, I started traveling out to London and selling my CDs in central London and also a few other cities in the UK.

Now, after I graduated, I already had a job offer to work for a consulting company. But I wanted to take a year out. I mean, I was still young. I graduated when I was only 20.

[00:04:34] Anthony: With the computer science degree?

[00:04:36] Zuby: Yeah, that’s right.

[00:04:37] Anthony: Right on. That’s cool.

[00:04:38] Zuby: Yeah, so thank you. So, I’d already had my second album written at this point, so I wanted to take a year out and just do my music full time. So I went and I recorded my second album again with my friend Chris. That album was called The Unknown Celebrity, because at this stage I was starting to gain some traction and I had my own little fan base. I had my “I’m down with Zuby” t-shirts and stuff. People still recognize it, funnily enough. I’ve always worn my own merchandise from the beginning.

[00:05:07] So I released that album and I traveled a little bit more extensively around the UK promoting it and just doing the street us old building up my fan base literally one person at a time, just hitting the street, going to random cities. I’ve never been to talking to people who had never met before and convincing them to buy my music by playing it to them.

[00:05:27] Anthony: Go on about that. What does that take? Like, How do you convince one person at a time?

[00:05:32] Zuby: It takes balls. [Laughter]

[00:05:37] Anthony: What was that experience like for you? Like, how do you develop confidence doing that?

[00:05:42] Zuby: Okay, so the very first time I ever went out to sell my CDs, I was shook. I was scared, right? I was just standing there in the middle of the high street, looking at all these people rushing by shopping, you know, just going about their business, you know, obviously walking past me. Nobody knows who I am. I don’t know who anybody else is, but eventually I built up the courage to approach somebody.

I can’t even remember what my first approach would have consisted of. But, you know, I eventually got someone to stop. I imagine, in hindsight, probably very cautiously introduced myself to them and my music, and, you know, they were interested in listening to it. So I gave them the headphones and that they had a little listen. They were like, “Yeah, how much do you want for it?” And I think at this stage, in the beginning, I was selling my album for–I think I started out selling it for just £4. So that’s about, you know, $5 or $6 in the US.

So he bought my album and that was my first sale. I do think the first person I approached, I think the first person that stopped, if I remember correctly, I think the first person that stopped and that was just the magic moment. I was like, “Wow, someone just paid me,” you know? “Someone has paid me for an album.” A stranger. No, no, not just somebody, but a stranger paid me for my album.

So before this I’d already sold my albums to my friends in university. Some of my friends, family members, people close to me who were like, “Oh, cool. Zuby’s got an album. Or course I’ll buy Zuby’s album.” But this was my first time going outside of my circle. So that was like, a magical moment for me, right? Looking at that money in my hand and being like, wow, like, you know, random strangers are willing to purchase my music.

And so then my mindset shift was: “Okay, well, if I can if I can sell one, I can sell more.” On the very first day I went, I think I took out, like, literally five CDs or something, because my expectations were very, very low. I didn’t want to go out with 50 CDs and come back with 50 CDs. So I think I just took five, and I was like, “All right, I’m just gonna stay out there until I can try to sell these,” and I sold out of all of them.

Now it may have taken me like two or three hours, just cause I was very hesitant to approach people. I didn’t yet have the confidence, but I did sell all of the cds that I went out with on the first day. The next time I went out, I took 10 CDs, and I was like, “Okay, I’m gonna try to sell. I’m gonna try to sell 10.” Eventually, quickly, I realized it was a numbers game, right? If I talk to, you know, seven or eight people, one of them will buy. Then to sell 10, I might need approach, you know, 50, 60, 70 people. But if I do that, then I will sell that many. And, um, yeah, this continued on for for many years. I’m sort of fast forward in a little bit, but, um, you know, I can now say I’ve sold over a sold over 25,000 albums. That’s amazing around, like when I say I sold them. I mean, like, literally like I personally, I first I have personally sold over 25,000 albums had to hand.

[00:08:59] Anthony: You probably spoke to 75,000 people, right?

[00:09:03] Zuby: More than that, dude way more. Hundreds of thousands. Yeah. Dude, I wish I had a one in three conversion right now. Yeah, I mean, maybe one in three people actually stops to talk to you.

[00:09:13] Anthony: Oh, wow.

[00:09:14] Zuby: And then, out of that, maybe one in three people will buy. So it all started out just with the street hustle. And then, in 2014 alongside my friend Shadow, who’s also an independent artist, we opened up a pop up shop called the Blue and Purple Store. And from 2014 to 2018 we took that store to about 10 different shopping malls in the UK. I think we did about 30 pop up shops in total, normally for like, a week or two at a time. And there we’d sell our music. We had our own brand of headphones, so we’d sell our headphones. We’d sell our merchandise, T shirts, hats, hoodies. If you go on my website, TeamZuby.com, you’ll see I’ve got tons of merchandise there.

So, it went from the street hustle for several years and going literally all over the UK whatever the weather. I’ve hustled in the rain, sleet, snow, everything. And then, yeah, eventually moved into the shopping centers and having our own physical shop. We were the first independent artists in the UK to kind of do that in the way that we did. So in the last year, a lot of my hustle has sort of shifted online to the online room. So I haven’t done a pop up shop now since the last one I did was about this time last year. January 2019 was the last one that I did. I’m now looking into new models, but it all started there.

It’s funny, I’ve done so many interviews and podcasts, but it’s rare for someone to actually dig into this story because not a lot of people realize–you know, so many people discovered me last year, and people always discover you where you’re at, so they just kind of see the tip of the iceberg. A lot of people don’t realize–like, if people knew the true story of how much grind and hustle I’ve been through since 2006. Mostly mostly mostly self inflicted, by the way.

And I’ve got an Oxford degree. I didn’t need become a rapper or anything like that. I didn’t even say I did work in the corporate world for three years, from 2008 through November 2011. I quit my job and went to do music full time. So I’ve been a full time entrepreneur musician since November 2011. So you know I haven’t died yet. I’m still surviving in thriving, continuing to grow. So yeah, it can be done.

[00:11:31] Anthony: That’s amazing. I run a YouTube channel called Make Weird Music, and it ended up where I was able to build this recording studio around me. And I built a lot of it with my bare hands. And there’s not enough emphasis on the hustle and the grind that it takes to go from nothing to something. And you said you were selling your CD for £4 when you started. What were you selling it in January 2019?

[00:11:59] Zuby: 10. £10. No, £12. Sorry.

[00:12:01] Anthony: All right. So one thing I want to cover with you is your e-book. A lot of people think. “Well, an e-book doesn’t cost you anything. It’s pure profit.” Right? So it should be, what, eight bucks? 10 bucks? 12 bucks? But you you are not pricing it there. So can you talk a little bit about your e-book pricing and your mental motivation behind that?

[00:12:24] Zuby: Yeah, sure. My e-book is $39, which I think is extraordinarily cheap for the value that people get from it. Someone actually messaged me last week and they’ve lost 50 pounds since they bought it, so and that’s directly using the information in there. I mean, you do have to put the information–you do have to use it. I can’t just magically make you burn calories by reading a book, but it gives people all the tools that they need.

So, I mean, I’ve been going to the gym for even longer than I’ve been rapping, all right? I started working out when I was 15 or 16. 15. I started training. At 15 I started training. Maybe it 18 because I didn’t know what I was doing the first couple years, and I wanted to write something that will help people avoid all of the pitfalls that I went through in terms of training, in terms of nutrition, diet, motivation, everything like that. So I’ve basically taken 16-17 years worth of knowledge and trial and error and distilling away all of the all of the nonsense and all of the falsehoods and just keeping the real meat that people need to know. So whether their goal is to build muscle, to burn fat, to get in shape, to get stronger, to look better, feel better–whatever their fitness goal is, I can help them reach that. And I wanted to make a very simple, concise book that will help people to achieve that goal.

Now, based on what that value is, I mean, if you think of what people will pay, I mean, my book costs $39. Sometimes I do sales on it, but typically it’s $39 for everything I have just described. And for that 16-17 years of knowledge I think that is a very, very reasonable and affordable price. If someone isn’t willing to invest 39 bucks to, you know, hit their gym goals and get their physique and their mindset in check, then, yeah, I don’t honestly think that they’re all that serious. So maybe it’s a bit of a natural filter.

I think it gets the people on board who are serious. And as we know, if people get something for free, sometimes they don’t value it. And I don’t want to say this is true in all cases. There are things we get for free, which we certainly do value. But when it comes to a product or service that people are going to be paying for, if they get it for free or for very, very cheap, it’s just natural human inclination to not value it in the same way. And I think also you attract worse customers if you make the price too low. So I wanted to make sure it’s affordable for everybody, but that the people who are gonna buy it are actually gonna use it and put it into practice.

[00:15:14] Anthony: Well, you inspired me to Ah, lose £30 last year I started..

Zuby: Oh, for real?

Anthony: Yeah, yeah! You posted some videos of yourself lifting weights, and then I started lifting some weights and you and Nassim Taleb and that Guru Anaerobic guy and a couple others. You’re all posting videos and photos of yourself lifting weights. So I’m like, “All right, I’m going to do some dead lifts,” and I think you commented when I first did it. But that was like 100,000 users ago, or followers ago. But I’ve lost 30 pounds in the last year and partially due to you.

And I’ve also started copying some of your book sales strategy where I’m saying, like, “I’ve got 10 copies and I will sign them. And if you buy them here, you know, I’ll get you get a sticker, you get the free audiobook, and you get the book itself.” And just watching the copies go down. You know, at 10, 9, 8, 7–it creates the scarcity effect. But also, it made me realize, “Oh, people do want to buy this book like I have put a lot my whole lifetime has led up to this book and it is worth paying for.”

But, you know, coming from a computer science background, everything we use is free. And so for me, it’s been hard to go from open source, you know, like knowledge is free. Wikipedia’s free. All of this stuff is free, even if it isn’t free. It’s free for us. And then when I put my life’s work down on paper, I’m like, “Why do I have to charge for this?”

But I think it’s that open source computer science mindset that made me think this isn’t worth paying for because I’m not paying for Wikipedia. And $10 a month from Netflix gets me access to, like, 10,000 movies. But if someone’s paying my Patreon at $10 a month and I’m putting like two or three videos together a month, it’s hard for me to–I start equating or comparing, and so I have my own troubles with the pricing. So I’m really–I’ve been inspired by you, and I’m really excited to hear your backstory on where you’ve come from with the pricing. Did you start the book at $39?

[00:17:23] Zuby: Yeah, it was 39 off the bat. Yeah, I was actually gonna do it for 49 but I thought, “Maybe let me make it. Let me make it 39. I think that’s kind of a sweet spot.” And I mean, this is funny. I mean, what you said is something that a lot of creative people in particular actually struggle with. Certainly a lot of musicians have this problem. And I remember we were talking about me selling 25,000 albums. Do you know the amount of people who advised me–inverted commas–that I should be giving my CDs out for free? Right?

The amount of people who are all, “Well, if you want to promote yourself, give it free.” I was like, “No, my music has value. And I know if I give someone a free CD, what are they gonna do? They’re gonna use it as a coaster.” They’re gonna use it like that. Certainly not gonna listen to it. Someone who pays £5 for £10 or £8 or £12 for my CD, they’re gonna go home and they’re gonna listen to it. No question. They are absolutely gonna listen to it. If I’m just standing in the center chucking out CDs for free. First of all, I’m losing money.

[00:18:20] Zuby: And we’re talking physical product here too, right? Every CD I give away, I’m literally just losing money. And so many of those are just gonna end up in end up in the trash. And I don’t even know if the people who are who are buying it are gonna like the music. With me, I used to play my songs to people before they bought it, so I would already know. “Okay, this person, if they like the three songs…” I played them enough to buy the album, you know, I’d play people, you know, little 30-second snippets, and it’s like: Well, if they don’t like it, that’s fine. No problem. If they do like it and they’re willing enough to buy it, then cool. I’ve just I’ve just made a fan, and I also think, from a more business perspective and an audience building perspective, I think it’s important to sort of train your audience to pay for stuff, right?

We live in this age where you know, a lot of people have this weird entitlement mentality. And like you said, so many things are free, or at least free at the point of service, that people just expect everything to be free. Which is kind of weird again, especially if you’re creative, right? You mean you could make, like, a whole movie, right? But all this money–tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars or pounds into making a film and people expect it to be free.

You can spend tens of thousands of dollars or pounds making a music album, and people just expect it to be free. You spend all this time making a book, you know? And not just the time writing it. I mean, like you said, it’s your life’s work, all right? You’ve had to go through years and years of experience to even put this together. It’s the same with my book, by the way.

There’s almost two ways of looking at the value. Okay, so you could look a physical CD and think, “OK, I could buy like, 10 blank CDs for five bucks or something. So this is just worth 50 cents.” Like know that the content of the CD is what you’re buying. A book isn’t a book isn’t just a book. Some books are worth $300 right? Some books cost $500. Some books cost two bucks. Some books are free, and that’s fine.

It’s the content of the book matters. If you’re buying some, I don’t know, medical textbook or some specialist document that’s created for surgeons or some you know, some super special technical engineering document, you’ll pay hundreds of dollars for that. Whereas if it’s a Children’s book of nursery rhymes, then yeah, sure, maybe 50 bucks in your pocket because the value isn’t there. But if something is gonna change your life potentially or help you earn more money or help you get in shape or help you have a much better relationship or marriage or whatever it is…

I mean, what value is that to people? What value do people put on those things? They should be putting a lot of value on those things. What else does 40 bucks get you, right? It might get you a couple of movie tickets and some popcorn, or even if you think we aren’t within the same realm. Okay, how much does a personal training session with a personal trainer cost? Right? For one hour. That’s just one hour. And then it’s gone. Whereas with my book, yes somebody buys that. And then for the rest of their life, they can refer back to it and be like, “Okay, actually, wait. Hang on. I need to get my… How do I want to lose fat? How do I set up my diet? Let me go back and check Zuby’s book. Okay, I want to go and build some muscle. What’s one of the best exercises to do this? How do I structure my sets in my reps and plan my workouts throughout the week?” That’s all in there, and it’s in there forever.

I think when it’s when it’s sort of explained to people like this, I think people are more like, “Okay, yeah, that’s totally worth it.” But if you just say, “It’s a book, and it costs $40,” then people are like, “Oh, that’s an expensive book.” And it’s like, “Yeah, but the book is just the medium. The book is just the vehicle.”

[00:22:20] Anthony: That’s right.

[00:22:20] Zuby: It’s really the knowledge and the value. And as far as I’m concerned, it’s actually cheap. I think it’s under priced.

[00:22:26] Anthony: So you’ve got some pretty thick skin. I would imagine going out and speaking to hundreds of thousands of people gives you some resilience, and what you do on Twitter is kind of like you stir the pot. You don’t say anything particularly controversial. Most of the time. [Laughter] It’s not that controversial, but sometimes it is. But you pick out sort of a subgroup on Twitter, and then you’ll say something, maybe inflammatory. Or maybe what people say is “common sense,” right? But then you just swat them down and it’s kind of like any awareness is good awareness.

You’re still getting people to notice you and you have skyrocketed in terms of mentions. And when you came to the US–what was it, a nine week visit? Yeah, and you were on–Well, you can go ahead and share all the different shows you’re on. And what a huge rise. A meteoric rise that nine week visit allowed you to to ride.

[00:23:28] Zuby: Yeah. I mean, the US trip was crazy, so I can’t list everything I was on, but in terms of the massive ones Joe Rogan experience, the Ben Shapiro Show, The Reuben Report, the Glenn Beck podcast. I was on Fox News twice. I was on Tucker Carlson tonight. I was also on–Blaze TV did several shows there. There were loads more.

[00:23:51] Anthony: You sat in the in Vice President Pence’s chair in his office, right?

[00:23:56] Zuby: Yeah, I got invited to the White House twice. I mean, I’ve got fans in the White House. Like I didn’t know that until I got to DC and I was in the White House, and people recognized me. I got I got recognized in the White House. One coming up to me and, “Zuby! Oh, man, I love you. I love your stuff.” I was like, “Really?” I mean, the White House. Yeah. So I’m an independent rapper from the UK, but I have I have fans in the White House, so I was like, “This is this is pretty cool.”

[00:24:23] Anthony: So one final topic and then I’ll let you go. I’d like to cover being serious, and I think a lot of people, they just they kind of think life is just gonna happen to them. And if it doesn’t, that’s unfair. Whereas there are people like you who will go out in rain and snow and whatever and sell a CD in person, you know, make eye contact with every single customer, even the people who say no, even the people who refused to even acknowledge you exist. And you know, there’s a lot of Twitter commentary about you being conservative and you’re black and this and that, but no one talks about how thick your skin is, and I think you have some of the thickest skin I’ve seen on Twitter. But also that comes from being serious, and I mean you’re not taking your mission lightly. I don’t know how to articulate your mission because you have several things going on.

Zuby: I have a big one.

Anthony: What’s that?

[00:25:28] Zuby: I wanna have a positive impact on over 10 million people.

[00:25:32] Anthony: Well, that’s an awesome mission. How do you How do you stay serious about that? And what do you have to say to people who think they’re serious? But they’re not. And I know you can identify people who think they’re serious, and they’re not.

[00:25:46] Zuby: Yeah, sure. I want to say it’s a combination of being very serious and not being serious.

[00:25:56] Anthony: Okay. You mean like, ah, joking?

[00:26:00] Zuby: Yeah, well, there’s a fine balance. So what I mean is that in terms of fulfilling my mission and meeting my potential and meeting all of my goals, I am a very, very serious individual. But when it comes to the process of that and how I view life in general, I can be very serious. And I am very serious at times. But I’m always careful not to take myself, nor the world, nor everything that happens in the world too seriously.

And I think that’s why I appeal to a lot of people. Because people know I have a sense of humor, right? I’m multifaceted. I can I can be serious, but I make jokes. I troll. I kick the hornet’s nest sometimes sometimes. I’m just me and I’m like that in real life. I don’t have a Twitter persona. I mean, you have met me in real life, right? I’m the same. I’m just me. I’m just Zuby. And I found that what I used to actually do was I used to hide that side of my personality online. It’s not like my personality shifted. It’s just that I used to be like, “Okay, in private, I’m going to be totally Zuby and on stage, I’m gonna be Zuby.”

[00:27:06] Anthony: Why? If you don’t mind, why did you hide it?

[00:27:10] Zuby: Well, that’s a good question, man. I think it takes a while to become confident enough in yourself to put yourself out there publicly in a true sense. And most people don’t do it. Even the biggest celebrities in the world. It’s very rare to find one who’s like truly real and authentic, at least in the public eye. If you meet them private, you’ll be like “Okay, cool, like this guy’s real but in public, they have a very public persona.” And with me, you know, stuff just kind of got to a stage.

I didn’t plan on becoming some kind of socio political commentator or kind of being known for my my thoughts or my beliefs or anything like that. But what happened was the world just started going sideways in a lot of ways, and I started seeing just just a lot of weird stuff cropping up and going on, and I didn’t see a lot of people in the public world sort of challenging it or questioning it or anything. It’s part of the same reason why I think, you know, Jordan Peterson became so popular not because he was saying something that’s sort of totally outlandish, but just in a world where stuff has gone kind of weird, someone who just sort of tells quite basic truths and is willing to stand up to the mob and is willing to sort of stick their neck out there when other people won’t for valid for various reasons. Turns out that that’s actually really popular, and people, people really respect that and gravitate to it because, like I said for various reasons, a lot of people, you know, some of these reasons are good and some of them are not so good as far as I’m concerned.

But a lot of people don’t really want to stick their head above the parapet. So you need those people who are willing to do it and with me. Look, I’ve got certain principles and I’ve got certain limits of where where I’m happy to speak out. Or there’s a stage where I feel like I have to speak on something sans expense. So there’s a lot of stuff like, you know, goes by and either I don’t have an opinion on or I don’t have an opinion that’s well formed and strong enough to sort of want, want to put it out there in any public forum. But with a lot of stuff that’s been going on and this just kind of being clicking together over the last sort of five years, maybe a lot of the conversations that I’ve been having in private with people I’m now just sort of having in public, and it’s almost like now that I know people now that I know people like that and I’ve sort of established something there. It’s like OK, well, it’s that’s already there and it’s kind of it’s kind of freeing, actually, because I’ve already faced 30 different Twitter mobs.

So it’s kinda like at this stage, I don’t care, right? Like I care deeply about what people I know and you know, people who really like me or whatever. I care deeply about what they what they think about me. But in terms of, you know, random people who are never going to like me or have just decided they don’t like me or whatever, I’ve gotten a lot better at just not even caring what they think.

When I started in my music, it was very painful. If someone said something bad about me or someone didn’t like my songs or whatever, I’d take it kind of personally because I wasn’t used to that sort of criticism. But as you said over the years, the skin gets thicker and thicker and thicker. I mean, I’ve got it pretty much exoskeleton, to the point where stuff just stuff just bounces off someone. Consider the horrible crap about me online. The most awful thing.

And I’ve already seen it, you know, and I don’t like it, but at the same time, I kind of have a rule. Look, don’t don’t let don’t let a stranger online’s opinion about you derail you or control you or upset you because I just imagine that sometimes I read a comment and I’m like, I’m almost imagining the kind of person would even say that. And it’s like this just reflects on them. This isn’t saying anything about me. I know who I am. I’m straight. I’m cool. People who know me know who I am, like I’ve got literally at this stage hundreds of thousands of people who like me and know what I represent and know that I’m true what I’m true to, and know that I’m not any of these things that my detractors may like to claim that I am.

So if you’re confident in yourself, then there’s nothing really anyone consider it a that’s gonna totally rattle you because look, if someone says something about me that’s true, then I’ll agree with it. I’ll agree and amplify. I’m like, Yeah, that’s and there’s someone not meet its false. Then it can’t bother me too much because I know who I am. And I know what I don’t know what I stand for. So if someone says something that’s wrong, I’m just like, Well, yeah, that. Well, that’s not even that’s not wrong. So whatever you say about Zuby, whether you’re right or whether you’re wrong, then it’s not really gonna faze me.

[00:32:16] Anthony: That’s awesome, Zuby. Thank you so much for your time. Can you just share with the listeners how they might find out more about you and anything you care to promote here?

[00:32:27] Zuby: Yeah, Absolutely. So you can follow me on all social media at Zuby Music. That is just Z U B Y music? I’m on Twitter. Of course, I’m also on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. My podcast, Real Talk with Zuby is available on iTunes, apple Podcast stitch air cast box, YouTube, Spotify, all the usual places. And you can also find my music. I’ve got five albums and three EPs out there. All of those are available on the same usual digital music platforms. And if you would like to check out my book or any other work, just go to ZubyMusic.com and there’s links to everything on there.

[00:33:05] Anthony: Right on. Thanks again for your time. I really appreciate it.

[00:33:08] Zuby: That’s all good. Anthony,